Perfectly said! Everyone is arguing about due process without actually defining what exactly the process is that is due—for American citizens, that process looks very very different than the process for people with no legal right to be in the country in the first place. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still demand everyone reasonably enjoys the process they are due!
Unfortunately, retirement is probably still a ways off for TWT attorneys!
We’re glad we succeeded in the goal of breaking down the law to simple terms for those without legal training, even though you are probably correct: no explanation will suffice for those completely captured by the Left.
As I posted weeks ago, the folx complaining about “due process” define “due process” as “stall the case until Trump is no longer President, then drop it.”
They don’t actually care about due process; they care about winning.
Due process?? To the left, due process means “Do as we say or suffer the consequences”. It’s not a part of the legal process for them, it’s their demand for power over everyone.
I'm a retired attorney who specialized in due process and litigated numerous due process before the DC federal and local courts. My quibble with your article is that your explanation of the due procesd test not accurate. The balancing test for due process cases do not look for just the gpvernmental interest and the narrowly-tailored, least restrictive means of due process.
The test, at least in DC courts, which kind of sets the standard for the country, is that there must be notice and an opportunity to respond and both the notice and opportunity to respond must be meaningful. You then go to the balancing test from the Supreme Court case of Mathews v. Eldridge, which considers the govenment's interest, the public's interest, and the individual/plaintiffl's interests in determing the amount of process due. (I'm retired and haven't looked at the cases in about 10 yrs, so I may be missing a few descriptive words, but the above is basically correct.) The actual full procedural due process analysis ends up being quite complex, with multiple elements and multiple steps in each element.
Regardless, your compare/contrast of the putative due process claims of the J6 defendants with these illegal immigrants is really good. If I were still practicing, I would have almost certainly wanted to litigate the due process violations of the J6 defendants -- they are egrious and heinous. But its basically useless to bring any due process claim in an immigration case because of the governing statutes and regulations. That is as long as one ignores the lawless, rogue judges who are destroying our legal system from within.
Hi Leslie, thanks for your feedback—you certainly sound quite qualified to scrutinize this!
I definitely take your point that the outline of due process provided really streamlines a lot of complex considerations—the goal was to provide an easy to follow breakdown of “how” to think about due process more than to fully equip non lawyers to do a comprehensive due process analysis. I’d hoped to capture the gist of “notice and opportunity to be heard” through the explanation in the beginning about how procedural due process requires precisely that, and to then introduce the basic themes of strict scrutiny review and a few examples of how that tends to work. I hoped, in walking through the examples and reminding readers of the “fundamental fairness” standard and need for government to follow the predictable “established legal procedures”, I was paraphrasing the basic need for “notice” and meaningful opportunity to be heard. I definitely take your point that, for the sake of providing a basic ‘big picture’ understanding of due process of law, a lot of the legal nuance was sacrificed. I’m sure it was glaring to you, as someone with such impressive experience in this very complex area of law!
In an event, I’m glad you enjoyed the compare/contrast portion!
We hope you’ll check out some more of our work, which often attempts to provide these legal breakdowns to help readers think about politically relevant legal issues:
Well written and fair. My only comment is that due process was not administered for the 15M that were allowed into the country so I would not expect it to be followed as they are removed.
This is so well written. I believe and think others do, too that everyone deserves due process. I also understand solitary confinement is not the long term answer. Just rounding up folks and deporting them is also not the answer.
Our own criminals do not always get due process. Sex offenders especially with minor children are placed in solitary confinement. The reason is the general prison population does not like people who prey on children. Therefore the sex offender's life is in peril. But 23 hours in a cell with an hour outside in an empty space is not the answer. I don't see it as an answer for anyone.
Our justice system is not set up to rehabilitate. There was a prison n Washington I believe, it's been a while, who was teaching inmates to make blue jeans. Giving them a skill. Prison Blues were available for order at one time. Teach them to be auto mechanics, plumbers, work with heating and cooling, carpentry, furniture making these are usable skills. Then help them find places to put these skills to work. That would be rehabilitating someone one. Instead we put mentally fragile people in with hardened criminals and wonder why they don't survive. It's not rocket science.
Totally agree with you on how messed up our justice system is. You’re definitely right that the “rehabilitation” goal of the criminal justice system has fallen too far to the wayside for many—especially for those with realistic chances of turning their life around.
Further, it often seems like any program allegedly aimed at even just more humane treatment of incarcerated populations is always incredibly misguided and more just a liberal ‘social justice’ talking point. For example, pregnancy care in prisons is often a joke, but instead of hearing about that we just debate whether violent male criminals should be kept in female prisons if they identify as female . . .
There is so much wrong with our prison system. Justice is not always served. It's already been proven that males identifying as females do not belong in women's prisons. I think there were three women violently raped the last time that was tried.
The most right to due process an illegal immigrant citizen of a foreign nation has, is to be seen by a judge in the executive system that oversees immigration. Managing immigration and foreign affairs is the executive's responsibility to follow the law according to its discression as to practicality and allocation of resources. If one administration did not honestly follow the law and due process of vetting people on the way in, the next should be able to return the situation to the status quo ante, ie wait for a hearing or a visa outside the US. On a person being sent to a foreign jail without a judicial hearing, they are not entitled to be in our country.
If another country is willing to accept responsibility for these people when their native country will not, then they should be transferred and become the responsibility of that foreign country and not of the US. Any agreement that pays for the transfer of responsibility should probably include the provision that the person be handled according to local law and procedure, with the US transferring any data available on actions in the US or the native country. For the "Maryland man", he IS in his own native country and subject to its laws. Whatever proof and process El Salvadore needs to jail him should be the criteria for him to remain in jail, not an agreement with the US.
So here’s an idea. Let’s put a judge about every fifty miles along the border, with the military there as well. Ice picks up illegals, brings them right to tte border, in front of a judge that stamps their forehead. And then catapults them back over. One year of that, and our nation will be cleared. Especially when they figure out that whole catapult ride.
IMHO, the victim as well as the accused needs to receive due process for justice to prevail. In the case of unvetted immigration, who are the victims? There are three main groups. First are those citizens who sought a job and found that an immigrant was willing to do the job for less money. They either lost money or worse, a job, for each illegal hired. Second, taxpayers had to pay for the needs of people who have not yet begun to contribute. Third, Some people lost their lives due to criminals who would not have been allowed to enter if the most basic checks had been performed. In addition, all those who have applied legally for entrance and waited for a vetting and permission were denied access due to the bogged down processing. All these people are due the justice of having the law and established procedures for adding immigrants to our country followed.
Thanks for the full explanation of due process. It’s clear to me that Garcia received more due process than any J6 protestor. I don’t give a hoot about any illegals rights until the utter abuse they wreaked on J6ers is addressed with the guards who beat/pepper sprayed/tormented/denied food,clean water,medical attention/and placed detainees in solitary confinement for months and the judges who withheld a fair trial and due process to them are charged and convicted for wrongful imprisonment and torture.
It certainly does not help when outlets like The Washington Post take a nuanced response from President Trump and spin it: Washington Post headline read QUOTE
“President Says ‘I Don’t Know’ When Asked if He Must Uphold the
Exactly, the media has created this whole reality of who Trump is and what he is doing, and it’s all the smoke and mirrors of out of context quotes that multiple liberal media sources saturate the market with
Broadly speaking, “life liberty and property” are the basic principles of freedom in America. Over time, the courts have more specifically defined these rights: the right to have children and raise them according to your values, the right to own private land and belongings that cannot be taken from you, etc. The due process clause guarantees that Americans enjoy these freedoms, and that the government not deprive you of any of these freedoms without due process of law.
Equipped with the knowledge from this article, you’re prepared to determine is and is not a violation of this due process guarantee. For substantive due process, it means the government has to have a compelling interest and narrowly tailored action if they’re going to infringe on a fundamental right. For procedural due process, it means you have notice and an opportunity to be heard before the government can infringe on a right.
So for one example, the government technically can in some situations take your private property from you—that’s what eminent domain is! But they can only do that if they compensate you fully and if they can make certain showings that the taking is for a compelling reason, there’s no alternatives, etc., and if you have full opportunity to challenge the taking. Hope this helps clarify a bit!
Due process requirements vary from one area of the law to another. There is no presumption of innocence in a deportation proceedings, for example. And even within deportation proceedings it varies from one type of proceeding to another. All of the caselaw regarding due process discusses it in terms of the field of law from which the appeal was generated.
Correct! “DP is concerned with fundamental fairness, ensuring that the government follow established legal procedures to ensure fairness and prevent arbitrary action. The established legal procedures will dictate exactly what process is due. In the case of illegal aliens, the established immigration procedures reflect that very little process is due at all.”
I appreciate your laying out so many legal facts. My Animus towards the J6 people is so strong because they were trying to subvert the bedrock foundation of democracy. But, I will potentially agree that at least some were mistreated and that is wrong also.
As for Kilmar, my understanding is that it was never proven he was a member of MS 13, it was a maybe. And he has not shown any involvement in the years since 2019. I do not disagree with him being deported, but he was deported to prison without any crime and that is dreadful. I understand that up to 70% of those sent to that prison have no criminal record. At the least he should be released to freedom in El Salvador.
Thanks for the comment, skbunny! I think this is a very reasonable stance to take.
I’m a bit more comfortable with his deportation to the El Salvador prison for a couple reasons.
(1) the standard for deportation isn’t a conviction of terror, but rather that a person is evaluated as likely to engage in terrorism. He was linked to MS 13 on multiple occasions and a two separate judges upheld he was likely a member of the terror group—that there was no formal crime and conviction becomes a but irrelevant there. Same goes for the rest of those deported without criminal records—they have no legal right to remain here, so if they are linked to terror they can be kicked out. It’s a harsh standard, but it is the standard nonetheless
(2) I also wouldn’t mind if he was just released in El Salvador either, but ultimately that is up to El Salvador at this point—he’s their citizen in their country, and they seem prepared to classify him as a terrorist as well!
Thank you for replying to me. I'm keeping a notebook of things I am learning and will put your flow chart in there.
No one should be sent to prison without a conviction of crime. Just having some tattoos that may or may not be related to a gang is not enough (gangs are also not terrorists). Yes, send them back to their own countries. And Bukele said he is keeping him in prison because Trump is paying him to do so.
Totally agree with no one being sent to jail without criminal conviction, but i think that’s also why it’s important to keep in mind that he did break immigration laws by coming here! Two separate judges found he broke immigration laws by illegally entering this country, and determined him to be affiliated with the terrorist group—and not just because he had tattoos! But, again, I do understand the preference for that he be more formally convicted of a crime that actually tends to result in jail time before being subjected to a prison sentence—typically you aren’t jailed for breaking immigration laws.
Usually yes, that is correct! There are circumstances where it can lead to criminal charges though too (but I don’t believe we have sufficient evidence to suggest that applies here)
Thanks for the due process information. I hope there won't be a test. Surely the Senator understands that illegals, being non-citizens, do not have Constitutional rights. His words are disingenuous, and his actions are shameless grandstanding. Democrats doubling down on wokeism is suicidal unless they own their blue seats. We cannot reason with Van Holland because, like so many on the left, the righteousness of the cause, trumps truth. The ends justify the means, including the Sixties mantra, "any means necessary."
Decades of embezzlement, bribery, rapes, child abuse, political violence by N.C. judicial, LEO & gov't officials, aided by DOJ, FBI, other Federal Agencies & officials.
Sexual abuse of children, violence toward political “threats” to corruption, aided by NC & Federal gov't “trusted” institutions, zero integrity media is normal...the traumatized victims & grieving families DO NOT MATTER in NC.
District Attorney Office's used for rape, theft of taxpayer funds, child abuse, sadistic violence are NC's "Culture of Corruption," according to the FBI.
The same FBI that has and continues to aid and collude in criminal misconduct "Under color of law," subverting with violence representative democracy, Rule of Law, Constitutional & civil rights, due process, whistleblower protections, protection of minors from abuse & sexual violence trauma, engaging in sadistic brutality, torture, deprivation of basic rights, and deliberate, dehumanizing torment of crime victims (including minors).
The FBI aggressively, criminally, utilizes violence, torture and a corrupt, broken judicial system as evil as the FBI & officials who relish evil, subverting Rule of Law, Due Process, democratic government & childhood innocence for corrupt allies of these irredeemable institutions for aiding embezzlement of public funds, armed violence, brutality, extortion, retaliation & persistent horrific, violently criminal acts. Innocent victims are subjected to lifetime trauma, a fate worse than death, cheered by NC citizens.
Followed by life-ruining attacks on families, businesses, and reputations, using bribed media, LEO, clergy, political parties & officials to torture, brutalize & extort under penalty of death, by corrupt judges, armed deputies operating as hit squads under the DA and Sheriff.
This pattern has been repeated for decades. Smeared victims have never engaged in crime except the "invented stories" of fake news whores colluding to destroy opponents to corruption & proponents of democracy, justice, law-and-order & public service with allied US DOJ & FBI thugs in violation of mission, Oath, laws & morality.
Child sexual abuse, anti-democratic terrorism rewarded by NC, aided by Federal “partners” US DOJ, FBI, Congress, media. Rapes by DA Benjamin & Jon David, Roy Cooper & Josh Stein, thefts from the most disadvantaged children & smear campaigns using those public funds are normal in NC unlike fiscal discipline, emergency management, fixing a broken justice system or "public" policies.
HOLD OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE FOR YEARS OF VIOLENT CRIMINAL ABUSES OF POWER.
Replace the U.S. Dept. of Justice and FBI, complicit in corruption, violence & misconduct at every level, top-down.
Sheriff Ed McMahon a criminal sadist who risks his own Deputies lives to engage in "Swatting," attacking innocent targets with heavily armed home invasion gangsters plucked from his personal mafia, the New Hanover County Sheriff's Office, rapists and friends of the Governor Josh Stein & Roy Cooper, Benjamin & Jon David, delight in targeting the heads of young children and loved pets with AR-15s and shotguns, extorting uncorrupted elected officials by use of torture, deprivation of all rights and laws including life and property, and career and business and property and privacy, Due Process, civil rights, and Rule of Law.
Instead, the DA, Sheriff, with the US Department of Justice, FBI, U.S. Department of Education, unethical, bribed (with public funds) fake news media, and vapid profiteers masquerading as advocacy & “civil rights” organizations assisted Federal & State officials in protecting perpetrators of sadistic abuses of children and innocent targets of horrific brutality & retaliatory torture directed by corrupt public officials and community leaders.
The DOJ, Civil Rights Division, US Attorney Office, FBI specifically albeit not necessarily exclusively, for many years engaged in deliberate criminality “Under Color of Law” as well as through active engagement by agents in the field in violence and horrific brutality targeting children, whistleblowers, and public officials opposed to the corruption and sadistic crimes cherished in N.C. and its culture.
Rep. David Rouzer lauded this perverted evil publicly in the sacred Halls of the U.S. Capitol at President Trump’s March 2025 “State of the Nation” speech to Congress. Like his colleagues on both sides of the aisle, and the corrupt, purely political DOJ and FBI, and Department of Education, no accountability and no concern for victims of sexual abuse, life-altering violence, torture, deprivation of all Constitutional, civil and human rights, embezzlement of funds intended to feed and educate the most disadvantaged children, bribery and other serious crimes by judicial, law enforcement, government, educational and other public officials has ever been pursued, the “Deep State” and Congress have never sought to end the Federal Agency role in the growing number of victims, the destroyed lives, trauma and harm from the crimes endured and the added torment of injustice and humiliations heaped upon those same victims, while Rep. Rouzer, Congress and powerful authorities vigorously prevent accountability and justice, even restitution of stolen public funds has been uncompromisingly opposed by DOJ, DOE, and other Agencies with backing from Congress.
Embezzlement of funds from the Head Start program under District Attorney Benjamin David, Sheriff Ed McMahon, and numerous law enforcement, judicial, community and religious leaders, local government leaders, public and "trusted" institution & media, is deemed appropriate and more deserving of support than education and nutrition for the disadvantaged children purported as the purpose for Head Start. Reconcile that with the absolute lack of any action from any official to the embezzlement and significant additional crimes of felonious child abuse by program administrators which also resulted in no action even mere termination of the abusers to prevent further abuses of children b the adults charged with their care by an local officials or Federal agencies presumed to have an interest in protecting children from physical and sexual abuse. This is NOT the case.
Refusing to profit in any way from public service or accept any contribution for any purpose from anyone with any direct financial interest in government actions, I voluntarily too a vow of poverty when deciding to fight the blatant corruption in local government that is absolutely abhorrent and pervasive in N.C. I did not expect that the extent of corruption would result in bribing media to invent stories and using police as armed goons to engage in violent armed home invasions and sadistic violence against myself and others, to forego public safety to pursue that violence against me in retaliation and vengeance for purely political and personal reasons, nor did I expect to be thrown in the "hole" in N.C.'s most notorious maximum security prison.
Lynching, shooting dogs and innocent targets for sport, and operating an organized crime ring far more violent and sinister than the Mafia, raping children and adults, this is what US Republican Rep. David Rouzer esteems as so courageous and admirable that he rewarded his corrupt sadistic anti-democratic terrorist pal Sheriff McMahon with a place among real heroes at the recent "State of the Union" address by President Trump in 2025.
HOLD OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE FOR YEARS OF VIOLENT CRIMINAL ABUSES OF POWER.
Replace the U.S. Dept. of Justice and FBI.
DOJ, FBI & Congress Role AIDING Corruption, Rapes, Child Abuse, Anti-Democracy Political Violence & Terrorism (REAL Armed Brutality, NOT "JAN 6th" Fantasies)
“the established immigration procedures reflect that very little process is due at all”.
Exactly. I think the vast majority of Americans who are not insane believe that illegals deserve some ‘due process’.
And that due process consists of not getting the crap kicked out of them as they are sent back from whence they came.
Perfectly said! Everyone is arguing about due process without actually defining what exactly the process is that is due—for American citizens, that process looks very very different than the process for people with no legal right to be in the country in the first place. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still demand everyone reasonably enjoys the process they are due!
Thanks.
As a (thankfully lol) retired attorney I was glad to see you address this vexing issue in a manner that even most normies could understand.
Sadly, those who need to read it likely won’t. And even if they did, their years of brainwashing is nearly impossible to overcome.
Sasha Stone put it well in an article she wrote 2 weeks ago where she said (and meant literally) “there are no sane Democrats left”.
Sadder still, IMO, that idea can be extended to many who dont self ID as Democrats.
Crazy times.
Unfortunately, retirement is probably still a ways off for TWT attorneys!
We’re glad we succeeded in the goal of breaking down the law to simple terms for those without legal training, even though you are probably correct: no explanation will suffice for those completely captured by the Left.
Thanks again MoodyP!
As I posted weeks ago, the folx complaining about “due process” define “due process” as “stall the case until Trump is no longer President, then drop it.”
They don’t actually care about due process; they care about winning.
Excellent. Didn’t see your original comment, so I’m happy you reposted so I can add it to my reply arsenal
With proper attribution of course.
Due process?? To the left, due process means “Do as we say or suffer the consequences”. It’s not a part of the legal process for them, it’s their demand for power over everyone.
Sadly, you’re probably right—at least about the modern Left over the last 8 years or so!
I'm a retired attorney who specialized in due process and litigated numerous due process before the DC federal and local courts. My quibble with your article is that your explanation of the due procesd test not accurate. The balancing test for due process cases do not look for just the gpvernmental interest and the narrowly-tailored, least restrictive means of due process.
The test, at least in DC courts, which kind of sets the standard for the country, is that there must be notice and an opportunity to respond and both the notice and opportunity to respond must be meaningful. You then go to the balancing test from the Supreme Court case of Mathews v. Eldridge, which considers the govenment's interest, the public's interest, and the individual/plaintiffl's interests in determing the amount of process due. (I'm retired and haven't looked at the cases in about 10 yrs, so I may be missing a few descriptive words, but the above is basically correct.) The actual full procedural due process analysis ends up being quite complex, with multiple elements and multiple steps in each element.
Regardless, your compare/contrast of the putative due process claims of the J6 defendants with these illegal immigrants is really good. If I were still practicing, I would have almost certainly wanted to litigate the due process violations of the J6 defendants -- they are egrious and heinous. But its basically useless to bring any due process claim in an immigration case because of the governing statutes and regulations. That is as long as one ignores the lawless, rogue judges who are destroying our legal system from within.
Hi Leslie, thanks for your feedback—you certainly sound quite qualified to scrutinize this!
I definitely take your point that the outline of due process provided really streamlines a lot of complex considerations—the goal was to provide an easy to follow breakdown of “how” to think about due process more than to fully equip non lawyers to do a comprehensive due process analysis. I’d hoped to capture the gist of “notice and opportunity to be heard” through the explanation in the beginning about how procedural due process requires precisely that, and to then introduce the basic themes of strict scrutiny review and a few examples of how that tends to work. I hoped, in walking through the examples and reminding readers of the “fundamental fairness” standard and need for government to follow the predictable “established legal procedures”, I was paraphrasing the basic need for “notice” and meaningful opportunity to be heard. I definitely take your point that, for the sake of providing a basic ‘big picture’ understanding of due process of law, a lot of the legal nuance was sacrificed. I’m sure it was glaring to you, as someone with such impressive experience in this very complex area of law!
In an event, I’m glad you enjoyed the compare/contrast portion!
We hope you’ll check out some more of our work, which often attempts to provide these legal breakdowns to help readers think about politically relevant legal issues:
https://open.substack.com/pub/thewholetruthpublications/p/the-ny-court-of-appeals-just-tore?r=4dg1kb&utm_medium=ios
https://open.substack.com/pub/thewholetruthpublications/p/oh-tish-what-have-you-done?r=4dg1kb&utm_medium=ios
https://open.substack.com/pub/thewholetruthpublications/p/to-deport-or-not-to-deport?r=4dg1kb&utm_medium=ios
https://open.substack.com/pub/thewholetruthpublications/p/joe-bidens-pardon-party-let-him-eat?r=4dg1kb&utm_medium=ios
https://open.substack.com/pub/thewholetruthpublications/p/the-supreme-court-ruling-on-presidential?r=4dg1kb&utm_medium=ios
As far as I'm concerned, if you came in illegally, you chose to do NO process and therefore you go straight to deportation.
Well written and fair. My only comment is that due process was not administered for the 15M that were allowed into the country so I would not expect it to be followed as they are removed.
Excellent addition! And how curious is it that no judges tried to estop that . . .
This is so well written. I believe and think others do, too that everyone deserves due process. I also understand solitary confinement is not the long term answer. Just rounding up folks and deporting them is also not the answer.
Our own criminals do not always get due process. Sex offenders especially with minor children are placed in solitary confinement. The reason is the general prison population does not like people who prey on children. Therefore the sex offender's life is in peril. But 23 hours in a cell with an hour outside in an empty space is not the answer. I don't see it as an answer for anyone.
Our justice system is not set up to rehabilitate. There was a prison n Washington I believe, it's been a while, who was teaching inmates to make blue jeans. Giving them a skill. Prison Blues were available for order at one time. Teach them to be auto mechanics, plumbers, work with heating and cooling, carpentry, furniture making these are usable skills. Then help them find places to put these skills to work. That would be rehabilitating someone one. Instead we put mentally fragile people in with hardened criminals and wonder why they don't survive. It's not rocket science.
Thanks for reading, Rebecka!
Totally agree with you on how messed up our justice system is. You’re definitely right that the “rehabilitation” goal of the criminal justice system has fallen too far to the wayside for many—especially for those with realistic chances of turning their life around.
Further, it often seems like any program allegedly aimed at even just more humane treatment of incarcerated populations is always incredibly misguided and more just a liberal ‘social justice’ talking point. For example, pregnancy care in prisons is often a joke, but instead of hearing about that we just debate whether violent male criminals should be kept in female prisons if they identify as female . . .
There is so much wrong with our prison system. Justice is not always served. It's already been proven that males identifying as females do not belong in women's prisons. I think there were three women violently raped the last time that was tried.
Sex offenders that prey on children, should be executed immediately upon proving guilt. That’s the answer. They have no value.
The most right to due process an illegal immigrant citizen of a foreign nation has, is to be seen by a judge in the executive system that oversees immigration. Managing immigration and foreign affairs is the executive's responsibility to follow the law according to its discression as to practicality and allocation of resources. If one administration did not honestly follow the law and due process of vetting people on the way in, the next should be able to return the situation to the status quo ante, ie wait for a hearing or a visa outside the US. On a person being sent to a foreign jail without a judicial hearing, they are not entitled to be in our country.
If another country is willing to accept responsibility for these people when their native country will not, then they should be transferred and become the responsibility of that foreign country and not of the US. Any agreement that pays for the transfer of responsibility should probably include the provision that the person be handled according to local law and procedure, with the US transferring any data available on actions in the US or the native country. For the "Maryland man", he IS in his own native country and subject to its laws. Whatever proof and process El Salvadore needs to jail him should be the criteria for him to remain in jail, not an agreement with the US.
So here’s an idea. Let’s put a judge about every fifty miles along the border, with the military there as well. Ice picks up illegals, brings them right to tte border, in front of a judge that stamps their forehead. And then catapults them back over. One year of that, and our nation will be cleared. Especially when they figure out that whole catapult ride.
How do we get this idea to Trump?!? lol
Thanks for reading Lizzie! Completely agree
More on due process:
IMHO, the victim as well as the accused needs to receive due process for justice to prevail. In the case of unvetted immigration, who are the victims? There are three main groups. First are those citizens who sought a job and found that an immigrant was willing to do the job for less money. They either lost money or worse, a job, for each illegal hired. Second, taxpayers had to pay for the needs of people who have not yet begun to contribute. Third, Some people lost their lives due to criminals who would not have been allowed to enter if the most basic checks had been performed. In addition, all those who have applied legally for entrance and waited for a vetting and permission were denied access due to the bogged down processing. All these people are due the justice of having the law and established procedures for adding immigrants to our country followed.
Thanks for the full explanation of due process. It’s clear to me that Garcia received more due process than any J6 protestor. I don’t give a hoot about any illegals rights until the utter abuse they wreaked on J6ers is addressed with the guards who beat/pepper sprayed/tormented/denied food,clean water,medical attention/and placed detainees in solitary confinement for months and the judges who withheld a fair trial and due process to them are charged and convicted for wrongful imprisonment and torture.
Appreciate the detailed explanation!
Thank you, Ruth! And thanks for reading!
It certainly does not help when outlets like The Washington Post take a nuanced response from President Trump and spin it: Washington Post headline read QUOTE
“President Says ‘I Don’t Know’ When Asked if He Must Uphold the
Constitution.” END QUOTE
Exactly, the media has created this whole reality of who Trump is and what he is doing, and it’s all the smoke and mirrors of out of context quotes that multiple liberal media sources saturate the market with
What meaning does “Life, Liberty, or Property" have in the Due Process Clause?
Thanks for reading and for the question!
Broadly speaking, “life liberty and property” are the basic principles of freedom in America. Over time, the courts have more specifically defined these rights: the right to have children and raise them according to your values, the right to own private land and belongings that cannot be taken from you, etc. The due process clause guarantees that Americans enjoy these freedoms, and that the government not deprive you of any of these freedoms without due process of law.
Equipped with the knowledge from this article, you’re prepared to determine is and is not a violation of this due process guarantee. For substantive due process, it means the government has to have a compelling interest and narrowly tailored action if they’re going to infringe on a fundamental right. For procedural due process, it means you have notice and an opportunity to be heard before the government can infringe on a right.
So for one example, the government technically can in some situations take your private property from you—that’s what eminent domain is! But they can only do that if they compensate you fully and if they can make certain showings that the taking is for a compelling reason, there’s no alternatives, etc., and if you have full opportunity to challenge the taking. Hope this helps clarify a bit!
Thanks, I was asking because I was wondering which of these categories a foreigner crossing the border could claim.
Broadly, probably liberty—That’s sort of a catch all lol
I would like to see how his lawyer pleads that
Due process requirements vary from one area of the law to another. There is no presumption of innocence in a deportation proceedings, for example. And even within deportation proceedings it varies from one type of proceeding to another. All of the caselaw regarding due process discusses it in terms of the field of law from which the appeal was generated.
Correct! “DP is concerned with fundamental fairness, ensuring that the government follow established legal procedures to ensure fairness and prevent arbitrary action. The established legal procedures will dictate exactly what process is due. In the case of illegal aliens, the established immigration procedures reflect that very little process is due at all.”
I appreciate your laying out so many legal facts. My Animus towards the J6 people is so strong because they were trying to subvert the bedrock foundation of democracy. But, I will potentially agree that at least some were mistreated and that is wrong also.
As for Kilmar, my understanding is that it was never proven he was a member of MS 13, it was a maybe. And he has not shown any involvement in the years since 2019. I do not disagree with him being deported, but he was deported to prison without any crime and that is dreadful. I understand that up to 70% of those sent to that prison have no criminal record. At the least he should be released to freedom in El Salvador.
Thanks for the comment, skbunny! I think this is a very reasonable stance to take.
I’m a bit more comfortable with his deportation to the El Salvador prison for a couple reasons.
(1) the standard for deportation isn’t a conviction of terror, but rather that a person is evaluated as likely to engage in terrorism. He was linked to MS 13 on multiple occasions and a two separate judges upheld he was likely a member of the terror group—that there was no formal crime and conviction becomes a but irrelevant there. Same goes for the rest of those deported without criminal records—they have no legal right to remain here, so if they are linked to terror they can be kicked out. It’s a harsh standard, but it is the standard nonetheless
(2) I also wouldn’t mind if he was just released in El Salvador either, but ultimately that is up to El Salvador at this point—he’s their citizen in their country, and they seem prepared to classify him as a terrorist as well!
Thank you for replying to me. I'm keeping a notebook of things I am learning and will put your flow chart in there.
No one should be sent to prison without a conviction of crime. Just having some tattoos that may or may not be related to a gang is not enough (gangs are also not terrorists). Yes, send them back to their own countries. And Bukele said he is keeping him in prison because Trump is paying him to do so.
Totally agree with no one being sent to jail without criminal conviction, but i think that’s also why it’s important to keep in mind that he did break immigration laws by coming here! Two separate judges found he broke immigration laws by illegally entering this country, and determined him to be affiliated with the terrorist group—and not just because he had tattoos! But, again, I do understand the preference for that he be more formally convicted of a crime that actually tends to result in jail time before being subjected to a prison sentence—typically you aren’t jailed for breaking immigration laws.
Thanks for reading and for the great points!
One more quick thought - illegal immigration is a civil offense.
Usually yes, that is correct! There are circumstances where it can lead to criminal charges though too (but I don’t believe we have sufficient evidence to suggest that applies here)
Those j6 folks should have been given awards,and they should have come armed.
Thanks for the due process information. I hope there won't be a test. Surely the Senator understands that illegals, being non-citizens, do not have Constitutional rights. His words are disingenuous, and his actions are shameless grandstanding. Democrats doubling down on wokeism is suicidal unless they own their blue seats. We cannot reason with Van Holland because, like so many on the left, the righteousness of the cause, trumps truth. The ends justify the means, including the Sixties mantra, "any means necessary."
https://justice4all.substack.com/p/doj-fbi-and-congress-role-in-the?r=o62no&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true
https://open.substack.com/pub/justice4all/p/reform-or-replace-us-doj-and-fbi-927?r=o62no&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
https://justice4all.substack.com/p/federal-state-officials-aiding-criminal-662
Corruption has consequences. NC is "The DA Rape, Child Abuse, Anti-Democracy State of America" with US DOJ & FBI collusion:
https://justice4all.substack.com/p/reform-or-replace-the-us-dept-of-3df?r=o62no&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Decades of embezzlement, bribery, rapes, child abuse, political violence by N.C. judicial, LEO & gov't officials, aided by DOJ, FBI, other Federal Agencies & officials.
Sexual abuse of children, violence toward political “threats” to corruption, aided by NC & Federal gov't “trusted” institutions, zero integrity media is normal...the traumatized victims & grieving families DO NOT MATTER in NC.
District Attorney Office's used for rape, theft of taxpayer funds, child abuse, sadistic violence are NC's "Culture of Corruption," according to the FBI.
The same FBI that has and continues to aid and collude in criminal misconduct "Under color of law," subverting with violence representative democracy, Rule of Law, Constitutional & civil rights, due process, whistleblower protections, protection of minors from abuse & sexual violence trauma, engaging in sadistic brutality, torture, deprivation of basic rights, and deliberate, dehumanizing torment of crime victims (including minors).
The FBI aggressively, criminally, utilizes violence, torture and a corrupt, broken judicial system as evil as the FBI & officials who relish evil, subverting Rule of Law, Due Process, democratic government & childhood innocence for corrupt allies of these irredeemable institutions for aiding embezzlement of public funds, armed violence, brutality, extortion, retaliation & persistent horrific, violently criminal acts. Innocent victims are subjected to lifetime trauma, a fate worse than death, cheered by NC citizens.
Followed by life-ruining attacks on families, businesses, and reputations, using bribed media, LEO, clergy, political parties & officials to torture, brutalize & extort under penalty of death, by corrupt judges, armed deputies operating as hit squads under the DA and Sheriff.
This pattern has been repeated for decades. Smeared victims have never engaged in crime except the "invented stories" of fake news whores colluding to destroy opponents to corruption & proponents of democracy, justice, law-and-order & public service with allied US DOJ & FBI thugs in violation of mission, Oath, laws & morality.
Evidence provided upon request.
https://justice4all.substack.com/p/cape-fear-the-corruption-and-political?r=o62no&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Child sexual abuse, anti-democratic terrorism rewarded by NC, aided by Federal “partners” US DOJ, FBI, Congress, media. Rapes by DA Benjamin & Jon David, Roy Cooper & Josh Stein, thefts from the most disadvantaged children & smear campaigns using those public funds are normal in NC unlike fiscal discipline, emergency management, fixing a broken justice system or "public" policies.
HOLD OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE FOR YEARS OF VIOLENT CRIMINAL ABUSES OF POWER.
Replace the U.S. Dept. of Justice and FBI, complicit in corruption, violence & misconduct at every level, top-down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8hwgrz6zMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwKioTi6-Oo
https://open.substack.com/pub/justice4all/p/reform-or-replace-us-doj-and-fbi-927?r=o62no&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
https://justice4all.substack.com/p/federal-state-officials-aiding-criminal-662
Corruption has consequences. NC is "The DA Rape, Child Abuse, Anti-Democracy State of America" with US DOJ & FBI collusion:
https://justice4all.substack.com/p/reform-or-replace-the-us-dept-of-3df?r=o62no&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Evidence provided upon request.
Sheriff Ed McMahon a criminal sadist who risks his own Deputies lives to engage in "Swatting," attacking innocent targets with heavily armed home invasion gangsters plucked from his personal mafia, the New Hanover County Sheriff's Office, rapists and friends of the Governor Josh Stein & Roy Cooper, Benjamin & Jon David, delight in targeting the heads of young children and loved pets with AR-15s and shotguns, extorting uncorrupted elected officials by use of torture, deprivation of all rights and laws including life and property, and career and business and property and privacy, Due Process, civil rights, and Rule of Law.
Instead, the DA, Sheriff, with the US Department of Justice, FBI, U.S. Department of Education, unethical, bribed (with public funds) fake news media, and vapid profiteers masquerading as advocacy & “civil rights” organizations assisted Federal & State officials in protecting perpetrators of sadistic abuses of children and innocent targets of horrific brutality & retaliatory torture directed by corrupt public officials and community leaders.
The DOJ, Civil Rights Division, US Attorney Office, FBI specifically albeit not necessarily exclusively, for many years engaged in deliberate criminality “Under Color of Law” as well as through active engagement by agents in the field in violence and horrific brutality targeting children, whistleblowers, and public officials opposed to the corruption and sadistic crimes cherished in N.C. and its culture.
Rep. David Rouzer lauded this perverted evil publicly in the sacred Halls of the U.S. Capitol at President Trump’s March 2025 “State of the Nation” speech to Congress. Like his colleagues on both sides of the aisle, and the corrupt, purely political DOJ and FBI, and Department of Education, no accountability and no concern for victims of sexual abuse, life-altering violence, torture, deprivation of all Constitutional, civil and human rights, embezzlement of funds intended to feed and educate the most disadvantaged children, bribery and other serious crimes by judicial, law enforcement, government, educational and other public officials has ever been pursued, the “Deep State” and Congress have never sought to end the Federal Agency role in the growing number of victims, the destroyed lives, trauma and harm from the crimes endured and the added torment of injustice and humiliations heaped upon those same victims, while Rep. Rouzer, Congress and powerful authorities vigorously prevent accountability and justice, even restitution of stolen public funds has been uncompromisingly opposed by DOJ, DOE, and other Agencies with backing from Congress.
Embezzlement of funds from the Head Start program under District Attorney Benjamin David, Sheriff Ed McMahon, and numerous law enforcement, judicial, community and religious leaders, local government leaders, public and "trusted" institution & media, is deemed appropriate and more deserving of support than education and nutrition for the disadvantaged children purported as the purpose for Head Start. Reconcile that with the absolute lack of any action from any official to the embezzlement and significant additional crimes of felonious child abuse by program administrators which also resulted in no action even mere termination of the abusers to prevent further abuses of children b the adults charged with their care by an local officials or Federal agencies presumed to have an interest in protecting children from physical and sexual abuse. This is NOT the case.
Refusing to profit in any way from public service or accept any contribution for any purpose from anyone with any direct financial interest in government actions, I voluntarily too a vow of poverty when deciding to fight the blatant corruption in local government that is absolutely abhorrent and pervasive in N.C. I did not expect that the extent of corruption would result in bribing media to invent stories and using police as armed goons to engage in violent armed home invasions and sadistic violence against myself and others, to forego public safety to pursue that violence against me in retaliation and vengeance for purely political and personal reasons, nor did I expect to be thrown in the "hole" in N.C.'s most notorious maximum security prison.
Lynching, shooting dogs and innocent targets for sport, and operating an organized crime ring far more violent and sinister than the Mafia, raping children and adults, this is what US Republican Rep. David Rouzer esteems as so courageous and admirable that he rewarded his corrupt sadistic anti-democratic terrorist pal Sheriff McMahon with a place among real heroes at the recent "State of the Union" address by President Trump in 2025.
HOLD OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE FOR YEARS OF VIOLENT CRIMINAL ABUSES OF POWER.
Replace the U.S. Dept. of Justice and FBI.
DOJ, FBI & Congress Role AIDING Corruption, Rapes, Child Abuse, Anti-Democracy Political Violence & Terrorism (REAL Armed Brutality, NOT "JAN 6th" Fantasies)
https://justice4all.substack.com/p/doj-fbi-and-congress-role-in-the?r=o62no&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true
We are being manipulated by our labels.
Disavow them all.
https://open.substack.com/pub/joshketry/p/our-labels-are-a-big-problem?r=7oa9d&utm_medium=ios